IF Community


#144

That’s not what I meant, but since this seems to have taken on a life of its own, I guess I should clarify.

I made a flippant remark in response to an attempt at language-policing. As you wrote in the linked thread: “[w]hen people are passionate or deeply concerned about an issue and you say something that looks like you’re mocking that concern […], it’s not exactly an olive branch”. I was certainly mocking the concern, but I wasn’t doing it to provoke a response.

Nor was I wondering whether my comment, or anyone else’s, would be allowed in the chat room. I had no reason to think it wouldn’t be.

Rather, I was wondering whether the comment I replied to was a sign that it was the kind of place where participants would have to avoid using everyday idioms or else face a perpetually outraged mob… and given the dogpile that ensued, and everything that’s happened since, that turned out to be the case.

I’m sure it’s sore. But I think it’s sore mostly because they have to lie to themselves and build me up as a sinister force to justify the way they acted. Every time someone brings it up, they have to do it all over again – more fervently each time, it seems – and all that melodrama must be exhausting.


Venting a bit
#145

[quote=“vaporware, post:144, topic:250, full:true”]
That’s not what I meant, but since this seems to have taken on a life of its own, I guess I should clarify.

I made a flippant remark in response to an attempt at language-policing. As you wrote in the linked thread: “[w]hen people are passionate or deeply concerned about an issue and you say something that looks like you’re mocking that concern […], it’s not exactly an olive branch”. I was certainly mocking the concern, but I wasn’t doing it to provoke a response.

Nor was I wondering whether my comment, or anyone else’s, would be allowed in the chat room. I had no reason to think it wouldn’t be.

Rather, I was wondering whether the comment I replied to was a sign that it was the kind of place where participants would have to avoid using everyday idioms[/quote]
Sorry vaporware–I didn’t mean to misrepresent your intent.


#146

I hear you. I feel bad for people with good intentions who get caught in the crossfire in this sort of situation. Hostility affects more people than the ones who are actually participating in the argument–it can create a really uncomfortable atmosphere for others, too. Unfortunately, people tend not to be at their most rational when emotions are running high.


#147

That link now goes to a page saying “You are not authorised to read this forum.” Did anyone happen to save a copy? What game was being discussed?


#148

If I remember right:

Wes started an IFComp review thread in general comp discussion; one of the games he reviewed was Cactus Blue Motel by Astrid Dalmady. Some of his comments were serious (pointing out inconsistencies in the interface), others sarcastic (the Coke bottle I found was empty—so you didn’t leave any for me?? Minus 1 point). His last remark expressed shock that the PC was named Maria, saying he was going to stop playing.

Another poster took this as a criticism of the character’s race, though this view wasn’t universal; my interpretation had been “I thought my PC had been male so far, and the ‘reveal’ broke mimesis (since she would have known her gender the whole time)”. This turned into an argument; Wes deleted his review and requested that the thread be taken down.

Disclaimers: this is my impression from observing it; I haven’t spoken to anyone involved or even played the game in question yet. (If the PC is characterized strongly from the beginning of the game, for instance, then I’m completely off base here.)

I think that’s the extent of the matter. I should also add that the people involved have resolved the issue, apparently peacefully, and Wes has expressed a desire to let the whole thing die.


#149

I played that one and quite enjoyed it. The pc is very strongly implied from the get go to be a female lead - the others calling her Mari also implies it’s not quite “Mary”.

As far as I can tell, that review was quite sarcastic and att-whorey.


#150

That “apparently” is in the eye of the beholder. “Expressed a desire” is also quite light a word. But as the thread doesn’t exist anymore, it’s moot. Bullying triumphed again.

To the credit of the participants, the argument seems to have taken place privately elsewhere. The two posts I quoted are sequential.

AN INTERESTING NOTE: It WOULD be possible to resolve this without major drama. Even starting with Lucea’s post (which I quoted in full - it wasn’t much). There’s no open criticism in that post. There is AMPLE space to discuss the issue. It seems to have affected WesLesley more deeply. I dislike that the situation happened, and lay blame at the atmosphere generated on that place where a remark like Lucea’s could cause that to happen. But I honestly perceive no ill-intent on her actual post. Ok, there’s some subtext, yeah, but there’s ample space to talk it out peacefully.

Just, y’know, so people don’t think I’m targetting anyone, or that I’m unaware of a parallel between her comment here and possibly vaporware’s in Euphoria, for those who want to make the parallel (I try to see both sides of the question always. Just because I pick one doesn’t mean I don’t see the other). In this case it’s more the atmosphere that led to this developing this way.

The same atmosphere, I might add, that sparked off the updates debate All Over Again. I’m so tired of that one, everyone made their point so clearly in the old Spring Thing thread, bringing it up again is serving no purpose, everyone is being forced to repeat themselves.


#151

Yes. And also, let them potentially make mistakes, or say something awkward. Acknowledge that sometimes people mis-speak, and don’t read into it. (I’m saying this to the world in general, not intfic.com.)

I say this as someone opposed to language policing. I find that if someone says certain things, I won’t get along with them, and it’s best I don’t socialize with them, and better to know that sooner instead of later. If the incompatibility is buried beneath the surface of PC-talk, that wastes my time.

As for Wes, I think he may try too hard for attention at times, and his reviews made me cringe, but–that’s not the worst crime. He was a pretty ripe target, and in fact once I saw his first post I worried something like this might happen, then felt guilty of doing so.


#152

Absolutely. Personally, I always find it a bit much, but I can never bring myself to fault him. It’s the way he is. I’d feel bad curbing his enthusiasm, there isn’t enough of it to go around these days. And once you get used to it, y’know…

I haven’t played his game from last year yet (the alphabet is a cruel mistress, as someone said in IntFiction recently!), but I’m certainly curious.